Shay Sethi on Amercycle’s Vision: Next Gen’s Role in Decarbonizing Fashion Wardrobes

Shay Sethi has that Californian something-or-other, which he reluctantly describes as ambition, that has allowed him to achieve the dream of many: to create a recycled fiber capable of making Inditex fall in love. The biochemist founded Ambercycle hand-in-hand with college classmate Moby Ahmed in 2015, with the ambition to revolutionize the world of textile recycling. At the time, Sethi was unaware of the complicated sector he had decided to enter. “Can you imagine how we were left when, after spending so much time developing a fiber, we were told it wasn’t the right shade of blue?” jokes the now CEO of one of the great promises of chemical recycling in fashion. Today, Sethi has traded in his black T-shirts and the lab for shirts made of cycora, Ambercycle’s patented recycled polyester, and meeting rooms with fashion’s top executives.

 

Question: The future model of the fashion industry depends, to a large extent, on the possibility of creating new materials. Do you feel pressure?

 

Answer: I wouldn’t say pressure is the right word, but urgency. The idea under which we have built Ambercycle implies that we are not just a recycling process, but a change in the thinking of our customers. If you stop to think about it, all the clothes that are manufactured, no matter how much they are sold or repaired, end up in the trash. That’s an absolute truth, and the only way to change that is to scale the technology. This is the only real solution to a problem that’s going to come or it’s going to come. It’s a joint journey as an industry, so I wouldn’t talk in terms of reaching a target, because the transformation will be inevitable, we’re just trying to make it happen as soon as possible.

 

 

Q.: At the beginning of 2024, one of the next gen promises, Renewcell, went bankrupt. What were the consequences?

 

A.: Speaking from our experience, the industry’s overall interest in sustainability has not diminished since the Renewcell case broke. In the end, the specific methods to figure out how to develop circularity did not depend on a single company, but it is a transformation that will require the collaboration of many different companies and brands, parts of the supply chain and companies like Ambercycle. So the problem that Renewcell had has not slowed down the transformation, it’s part of trying something new, there are ups and downs, and if you look at the big picture, the transformation is taking place, even in the case of Renewcell, which after all, has continued to operate, albeit under another name, and both Ambercycle and many other companies we have continued to grow. The industry is still looking for circularity.

 

 

Q.: So the wake-up call to the brands worked?

 

A.: It definitely brought more attention to the problem of scaling technology, which is an extremely complex process. A lot of literature has been written around the Renewcell case in particular, and that has also led to companies paying more attention to how to do things correctly, which has been very helpful for the industry in general and for companies like ours.

 

 

 

“Fashion circularity does not depend on one company, it is a joint will and that is why Renewcell’s bankruptcy did not slow down the transformation”

 

 

 

Q.: And what can fashion learn after all?

 

A.: I’m not sure we can talk about a big learning, but rather small lessons. First of all, how important it is to think about the integration of the whole supply chain; it’s not just about producing the material, we need to go beyond that and make sure that we are able to create these amazing fibers, but also to make sure that we are able to create these amazing fibers. and make sure that we are able to create these amazing fibers, but also that they fit the whole value chain, from tier 4, in the extraction of raw materials, to tier 1, in the manufacturing of the garments. Very few companies in the sector have the full knowledge of their value chain, and this learning is just beginning to build. Secondly, I would say develop a regional strategy to support the cost structure. We are looking at different places in the world in which to manufacture our fiber, not just polyester, but a much larger portfolio of fibers. And finally, the importance of focusing on the brand story, in our case, of cycora, which we see as an ingredient brand and a touch point with customers. Companies want the material, but they also want to be able to be part of the cycora story.

 

 

Q.: When you knock on the door of a group like Inditex or H&M, are they more open to you today than they were two years ago?

 

A.: This year we are celebrating our tenth anniversary, and as we have grown as a company, we also see the maturation of the industry, which has generated a capacity to have more sophisticated conversations. We are now also graduating from what I would call the start-up phase and transitioning to the actual development phase, where brands can talk to us about buying thousands of tons of material.

 

 

Q.: Do fashion companies lack the technical knowledge to understand what they do? After all, they are chemists?

 

A.: Definitely, part of our job has been to create a story around the technology in addition to developing the technology itself. When we started, all people talked about was polymerization and capacity, but now the conversation revolves around other concepts, such as fiber quality, for example. The knowledge base of the companies has grown to where the industrial sector interacts with the brands, and this change has benefited us and made our work easier. It has also been an important factor that before closing many agreements, we have had very long conversations with the companies and we have gone through, let’s say, a first phase of falling in love. And in some cases, this has led to a marriage, an agreement, and in others it has not, and that has taught us that it is a long road. It’s not enough to have an idea and try to sell it, what we are building are relationships of many years in which we face a complicated challenge, but we both want to do our best to solve the problem.

 

 

Q.: And a company like Ambercycle, does it lack fashion knowledge?

 

A.: A lot, I never used to wear anything other than black T-shirts. I had never thought of fashion as anything else, and it was very exciting to discover the process behind it. Large volumes of industrial materials that end up becoming highly valued objects, fashion is not a commodity. What was really interesting was to investigate how, no matter how much we were able to make a fiber or a yarn, was it the right color? Did it have the right texture? This is what designers think about when they buy the material. Admittedly, as you can imagine, there was a lot of learning behind the fact that, after spending so much time developing a fiber, someone would come to us and say it wasn’t the right shade of blue. But in the end we internalized it and appreciated it, and well, today I wear more than just black T-shirts.

 

 

“We’re not inventing new physics, recycling is a solvable problem, but it comes down to will”

 

 

Q.: How much of your work is pedagogy?

 

A.: The funny thing is that each company has different approaches. For example, a company like Inditex is very interested in the qualities of the fibers we can make, the delivery times or the efficiency of the supply chain. With Patagonia, on the other hand, we focus more on the performance angle of the fibers and their technical applications, while Ganni, a company in the luxury sector, is more interested in telling cycora’s story and integrating it into its own. These differences aside, the big commonality is that they all want to make a cross-cutting change and go beyond meeting certain objectives.

 

 

Q.: Do you have to explain to the end customer what recycling is?

 

A.: This is the main reason why we focus so much on explaining the cycora story, because if you, or I myself, had no knowledge about the materials, we would buy solely on the basis of whether we like the garment or not. How do we create a desire for this material? Is it enough to put a green label or talk about the technical properties? Clearly not. What we have to do is explain our story in a way that, at the end of the day, a garment carrying the Ambercycle label is a reason to buy it. It’s the same thing with GoreTex, when people buy an item and it says GoreTex on the label, that’s a positive thing. That’s the same thing we want to achieve with Ambercycle in the long run.

 

 

Q.: If my mother thinks your clothes are made from clothes that have already been worn, she might be repulsed. What would you tell her?

 

A.: It’s a very simple answer: it’s not old clothes, there is no difference in quality and the fabric qualities are exactly the same. Next gen represents the future and the decarbonization of our closets as consumers, making good choices about the materials we use in our lives. And for now, if we can trust what brands have told us, this idea resonates with consumers.

 

 

Q.: On a scale of 1 to 10, how complicated is it to recycle fashion?

 

A.: It hasn’t been easy, that’s for sure. However, the funny thing is that the challenge has never been, looking at it from a technical perspective, to recycle on a small scale. As chemists, it is not complicated to manufacture one or two T-shirts with recycled polyester, in fact, it is relatively simple. The difficulty comes with volume, with replicating it in millions of garments and reaching the industrial scale that fashion has today. This is where the big challenge of the circularity equation lies. That is precisely why we have focused on working with companies of all sizes, from large to small, the entire spectrum of the sector, because to achieve demand, we need to include everyone. And that is also a puzzle, because then we need to develop a technology that can work not for one or two brands, but for all of them, in all supply chains, in different types of fabrics, in all types of yarn and in all products. It has taken us a while, as I said...

 

 

“The role of mechanical recycling has been, and still is today, of vital importance.“

 

 

Q.: Is an industry that is never again dependent on virgin fibers possible?

 

A.: The T-shirt I’m wearing right now, for example, is made of 70% cycora and 30% cotton. And the idea we had when we started working on Ambercycle was that we could take a garment like this, put it through our recycling process, and get, again, 70% cycora and 30% cotton, and reuse it again. Obviously the starting point has been to focus on the biggest waste that currently exists in fashion, polyester, but then to keep expanding the process to number two, number three, number four... The long-term goal is to develop a fully circular solution, and that all the garments we make will be recycled.The long-term goal is to develop a totally circular solution, and that all the brands that come to us and ask us for any garment, with any material, 65% synthetic and 35% cotton, for example, we have the possibility of supplying them.

 

 

Q.: Will chemical recycling completely replace traditional mechanical recycling?

 

A.: The role of mechanical recycling has been, and still is today, of vital importance. In all transformation processes there are steps in between. It is important to create something today that, even if it is not capable of fulfilling the objective, can be transited in time. We have worked hand in hand with many mechanical recyclers to understand which materials they are not capable of processing and to start with those, which are the ones that do have an end of life. And then, over time, we will scale up the processes little by little until we develop a global infrastructure solution. But it will undoubtedly prevail, because of a central issue in fashion, which is the quality of the fabric. Not even an expert would be able to tell the difference between a chemically recycled polyester fabric and a virgin one, and that is what will make the transformation to circular fashion possible.

 

 

Q.: Where should recycling factories be built: at the key point of production (Asia) or consumption (Europe and the United States)?

 

A.: As you say, in Asia there are a lot of materials left over from production that need to be managed, while in Europe and the United States there are as many or more garments that also need to be managed. So our strategy is to build a network capable of managing all that material, no matter where it comes from or where it is located. There are recycling opportunities in Asia, in Europe, in the United States... All these territories are very interesting locations in which to set up a structure because they would all provide an answer to a different problem. For better or worse, textile waste is everywhere. And the key to chemical recycling and our process in particular is that the origin of the material does not matter, whether it is post-industrial or post-consumer, but what varies is who we partner with in each region to prevent it from being thrown away. In the case of Asia, for example, we work hand in hand with manufacturers, while in Europe, we work with second-hand clothing collection and waste management companies. The structure is different, but the process is the same.

 

 

Q.: In 2023, Rehubs said that a network of 250 industrial centers was needed in Europe to develop the recycling industry. How far away are we?

 

A.: Our approach has always been to understand that we are facing a big problem, and to start small, building a couple of these centers and see how they work, what can be improved or what else is needed. We may end up needing 250 centers, or we may need more or less, but what this figure reveals is the magnitude of the problem we are facing.

 

 

“In the automotive sector, a few innovative companies, which had to set up the entire supply chain from scratch”

 

 

Q.: Succeeding in next gen materials doesn’t seem to be for everyone. What does a company’s success depend on?

 

A.: First of all, good feedback from customers and brands: we are working as a team and it takes good connections with the companies to design the facilities and set up the necessary production. The second point is attention to detail, not skipping intermediate steps. It is necessary to advance little by little from a small production scale, to a medium scale, to a more commercial one.... These processes require investments of millions of dollars, and we must be methodical in our work if we really want to ensure that we are on the right track. And finally, the commitment of the team, not only from the innovating company, as in this case is Ambercycle, but from all the partners in the supply chain up to the brands, because without a joint responsibility beyond that, it’s not going to work. We must all want this to work, because technology or its integration in the supply chain, are difficult problems, but solvable, we are not trying to invent new physics, it all comes down to will.

 

 

Q.: In what sectors can fashion be reflected to advance circularity?

 

A.: An example that we often look at is the automotive sector and the rise of electric cars. Initially, they were products with a very high price, but over time the industrial capacity developed, and the traditional sector itself began to show interest in these models. But the germ was born with a few innovative companies, which had to assemble the entire supply chain from scratch and facilitate its integration. It’s not just about creating a product, it’s about being able to integrate it into the production infrastructures little by little until manufacturing capacity is achieved.

 

 

Q.: The world is being redrawn in geopolitical terms, will sustainability continue to be a priority for companies in a world with trade barriers?

 

A.: We are privileged to have a strong presence in Asia and multiple European partners, but at the end of the day we are a U.S. company. We don’t believe that what has happened in the last year has wiped out all the progress. It may be that some brands have gone backwards, especially the U.S. brands because of the tariffs, but overall we still see real interest from companies, the value chain and investors. We have a unique cutting-edge product, which is going to drive circularity, whether it’s in the U.S., Asia or Europe, or all three at once. The real question is not whether this change is going to happen within fashion, but when it is going to happen.

 

 

Q.: The technology already exists. Is it feasible to scale up chemical recycling at the speed set by legislation such as that of Europe?

 

A.: It is important to have ambition, to have a high objective and to channel all our efforts to reach it. Life is short, and the problem is already in front of us. The world is not going to improve by itself, and we have to work so that progress continues.

 

 

Q.: Is it easier to do sustainability in Europe than in the United States?

 

A.: Clearly there is a big market in Europe, we travel there a lot, to the point where a flight this long feels like an almost short trip. But in a way the California ambition has worked for us, to call it what it is, this mentality of not just having a great idea, but being able to think long term and work hard to develop it. That’s what Ambercycle is as a company.