François-Ghislain Morillion (Veja): “So many centuries of human history to reach this point: accumulate cardboard boxes to then return them”
The founder of the French company Veja defends that he does not invest in advertising to allocate capital to a more responsible and controlled production.
He is not vegan and does not like the word sustainability. However, François-Ghislain Morillion is one of the architects, along with Sébastien Kopp, of the latest eco-fashion phenomena: Veja. This brand of sports shoes, founded in 2004, maintains that it does not invest in advertising to allocate capital to more responsible and controlled production. For Morillion, the sector should give more value to its origin, as it's done with wine. “When you buy a bottle of wine you know everything about the grape, but cotton is a commodity and nobody asks where it comes from.” By changing the narration, the product gains value: “why should we aspire to have organic cotton cost the same as that which is not? You pay for what you get.”
Question: Have you ever said that fashion should follow the example of sectors such as wine and value aspects such as the place of origin. So, sustainability is more a matter of communicating well what is done than implementing a sustainable strategy?
Answer: In Veja we do not use the word sustainability. But I like the example of wine because it’s more about changing the angle. When you buy wine, you are interested in where it comes from, who has produced it, what is the type of grape... All the history behind the final product. Cotton, on the other hand, is a commodity that you can buy anywhere, and you don’t really see what’s behind, and generally nobody cares. And there are different people who use different ways to plant cotton in very different places in the world. And this is what we wanted: see what was behind the fashion and put it in value. If you put it that way, sustainability ceases to be something cold, something based on negative aspects, and becomes something natural and fun.
Q.: Why don’t you use the word sustainability?
A.: Because it is a bit vague. We have a provisioning team, but not sustainability one. The buyer himself has to have that approach, it is the core of the company.
Q.: Will all fashion have to be sustainable?
A.: I don’t know, I don’t like giving lessons. Maybe we are wrong.
“I hope the farmer ends up having power someday”
Q.: You work with small producer communities. Is this way of working scalable?
A.: I don’t know what it means. A million pairs? A billion? We started with 5,000 pairs and today we produce more than one million.
Q.: Can companies like H&M or Inditex replicate this model?
A.: Before we started Veja we worked as consultants, and that is one of the reasons why we quit. Because we realized that it would take a lifetime to move these big ships, and it was easier to create a small motorboat and drive it in the right direction. Because these big companies were created before people even started thinking about sustainability, and problems like climate change were on the public agenda, so for them it is complicated. I am not saying that they cannot succeed, but it is a bit difficult since they have accumulated bad habits: buy cheap, make discounts... For us, it is easier because we start from scratch with that approach.
Q.: Are people willing to pay more?
A.: Probably not. And that is one of our challenges, not to be more expensive than other brands because I am not sure that people will pay more.
Q.: Can sustainable materials become cheap and mainstream in the future?
A.: I don’t believe it can, and I don't think it should. You pay for what you get. There is no reason why organic cotton, for example, will be cheaper in the future. It should be the opposite, we should start assessing the way things happen. In India or Peru, organic cotton is only 20% more expensive than traditional cotton, and we believe it should be more. Because the service you provide to nature and to the planet is worth it.
“Organic cotton shouldn't be cheaper: you pay for what you get”
Q.: Will the commitment to sustainability give the value back to the producer?
A.: I hope so. That the original producer, the one who makes the raw material, will have the power someday. But today they have no power. The market creates prices and producers lose money. Factories need to be profitable to survive, but if you are a farmer it is different, and right now they are charging less than it costs them to produce.
Q.: They always value fair trade, should we rethink globalization?
A.: Yes, we must value the local. And that’s why I put the example of wine. The cotton we buy is organic, but it is also agroecological cotton from northeastern Brazil. So it has a specific story. There is no reason why this cotton should have the same price as one that comes from India. So yes, you have to rethink globalization. The market has created commodities that have no origin or history. We have to understand that not all are equal. As with wine: we all understand that buying a Burgundy is not the same as a Rioja or a California wine, and that is reflected in the price.
Q.: So, the main motivation of this approach is storytelling, selling better stories?
A.: Yes, but if you start worrying about this, then you find out who is behind, and change your attitude.
Q.: Why is a vegan product better than the one that isn’t?
A.: We do not say that it is better. There are many customers who demand it, people on the team who are vegan, although Sébastien and I are not ... But the impact that meat consumption has on the planet is a reality. So, without being extremists, we begin to address vegan options. But most alternatives are plastics: if you are going to use oil, you better use leather. The models we have made with a polyurethane made from corn, is not good because you’re vegan, but because the value chain of this product is greener than the leather. But that does not mean that we will stop using leather. If humanity continues to consume meat, it would be stupid not to use leather.
Q.: Do consumers demand more from sustainable companies?
A.: Yes, of course, people never challenge a brand that is not sustainable at all. Our clients challenge us a lot through social networks, but it is good, because it means that people are aware of greenwashing. It’s part of the game. That is why it is essential to be transparent and also communicate when things do not go well. And then the reactions are surprisingly positive.
Q.: Is it compatible to be sustainable with following the rhythms of fashion?
A.: We do not make so many collections a year, nor do we have so many references. Some of our bestsellers have been in the catalog for nine years. We have had a six-month pace and you always have to have something new to offer, but most of our production are repetitions and we only launch a new model per season.
"Do you really need to ask for a hamburger instead of going down the street for her?"
Q .: Can you imagine a future in which all clothes will be repaired, resold, or rented and no new clothes are sold?
A.: We are working on it, but I cannot advance anything else.
Q.: Until 2019 they didn’t have any stores. Is ecommerce sustainable?
R.: We must work on it. It is a question to which we must answer locally. Each brand department is analyzing its impact and thinking about how we can be more sustainable. But you have to think locally and solve it locally, starting with where we have volume. We have just opened the first store in Paris: how can we deal with shipments there? Maybe shipping from the store, with cyclists ... I don’t know. It is a problem that we must address as a society. Our CEO in the United States has told us that the building he works in looks like an Amazon warehouse. People don’t go out to shop! It’s crazy, so many centuries of humanity to get to this point: accumulate cardboard and then return it. It is a problem that we should all reflect on, also consumers. It occurs in all sectors: in food, for example. Do you really need to ask for a hamburger instead of going down the street for it?